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Balance going in wrong direction

Sunshine26

Hello,

I am hoping the community can help me with a perplexing problem.

I wrote the following with the help of AI so it could be as clear as possible. I apologize it is a bit robotic.

Subject: Payment into Asset account moves balance the wrong way — need a fix

I use Quicken Simplifi on Mac. I have an account called "Reimbursement Account," set up as an Asset account, that tracks money someone owes me.

The original debt entries (credit card purchases split between an expense category and the Reimbursement Account) show correctly as positive (green, with a +) in the Reimbursement account amount in the split transaction.

Steps I took:

A payment came into my Venmo account, imported with Category = "Personal Income." In the transaction list, it displayed as green with a + sign. In the transaction detail view, it displayed as black with no + sign.
I changed the Category on that Venmo transaction to Transfer, with "Reimbursement account" selected as the destination account. After this change, the detail view displayed as black with a + sign.
I checked the Reimbursement account balance. It had moved further negative — away from zero, not toward it. The corresponding entry in the Reimbursement account itself displayed as black with no + sign.

What went wrong: This transaction represents someone paying me back money they owed me. When that happens, the amount they still owe should go down. So the Reimbursement account balance should move toward zero (less negative, or eventually positive/zero once fully paid), not further away from zero.

What I've checked:

I can't manually fix the sign on the Reimbursement side of the payment transaction — Quicken reverts it automatically.

If someone can please tell me exactly how to enter these payments so the Reimbursement Account balance correctly decreases when a payment comes in that would be amazing.

Thank you for helping with this!

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Comments

EL1234

That's weird, I've done this many times successfully so something strange is going on here. I'd try converting the Venmo transaction back to a generic "Transfer" transaction, which should delete the one in the manual account, and then recategorize it as a transfer to the Asset account, in case that fixes it. Otherwise maybe coaches can help (you'll probably need to send screenshots). Also, my manual account isn't "Asset", it's "Checking", but I don't see why that should change anything.

SRC54

To make sure I understand correctly . . .

So you get +$20 cash via Venmo and categorize it as a transfer to your Receivables account?

This is an asset account which should show a positive number because it's an asset (because you are owed a positive amount). So it should go down $-20 because now you are owed less, right? Say from + $300 to + $280.

You say it doesn't?

If that is true, then I would do as EL1234 suggests, and change the Venmo account category to just simple transfer. Then I would debit the Receivable account -$20 using the same plain Transfer category.

Let us know how it goes.

EL1234

@SRC54 is right. The reimbursement account should go down once you're paid back, as the amount you are owed (which can be thought of as an asset as opposed to actual cash) goes down. The key is that it should go in the other direction from expenses that are categorized to that account.

So an expense transferred to the manual account should make its balance go up, since you are owed more, and a reimbursement should make it go back down.

Let us know if that's what you are seeing!

DryHeat

@Sunshine26

In addition to what @SRC54 and @EL1234 said, the part about moving further negative "away from zero" doesn't seem right. Your reimbursement asset account should have a positive (or zero) balance. When it moves further negative when you get a reimbursement (as it should), it should be moving "toward zero."

I checked the Reimbursement account balance. It had moved further negative — away from zero, not toward it. The corresponding entry in the Reimbursement account itself displayed as black with no + sign.

Images of the account transaction list (and balance), and of the transaction detail for the transaction that isn't working right, would help diagnose the problem.

Sunshine26

Hi all,

Sorry It took me a while to get back to you. I really appreciate all of the input. I tried to change the category to plain transfer and it didn't work, so here are the screenshots that show the progression of each transaction.

Here are the screenshots you asked for, in order:

View 1– The original split transaction: a credit card purchase split between my expense category and Transfer > Reimbursement account (the loan side)
View 2– The Reimbursement account balance before anything: –$1,725.15

View 3 – The $15 Venmo payment as it imported, categorized as Personal Income

View 4 – The same transaction after I changed the category to Transfer > Reimbursement account

View 5 – The warning that popped up (no matching transaction found). I clicked Continue.

View 6 – The Reimbursement account balance afterward: –$1,740.15

View 7 – The Reimbursement account side of the transfer

View 8 – The Reimbursement account register. Split entries from my credit card always show green with a +. Venmo transfers in always show black, no +. No opening balance was ever entered — every entry came from splits or Venmo transfers.

Thanks for the help!

View very first (before View 1st) This is the orignial credit card transaction that fed the Reimburement account.png

View 1st - Reimbursement account starting balance.png

View 2nd - Unchanged payment transaction imported from Venmo.png

View 3rd - Venmo tranaction category changed to Transfer < Reimbursement Account.png

View 4th - Message when you press continue to change to trnasfer < Reimburement Account. - I Continued.png

View 5th - Changed balance of Reimbursement account after changing Venmo transaction to Transfer < Reimbursement Account.png

View 6 - The Reimburement Account side of the transaction after the Venmo account was changed to Transfer < Reimburement account and balance increased..png

View 7 - $15 June 4 Reimburment account register after transaction .png

SRC54

OK, @Sunshine26 So you are owed $1725, right? If so this number should be +1725, not negative.

My guess is that somehow when you started with this, you got a lot of transactions reversed.

So you went shopping and you bought two $15 items, one for yourself and one for N? So $30 spent but $15 is a transfer to the Reimbursement Account, which should be +$15 on the other side. That adds to your account and increases the asset (amount owed to you).

Then N paid $15, $28.48, which decreased the asset and you bought somebody a pizza and added $10.16 back? If those last three are transactions in your Reimbursement account. It's hard to tell.

You may need to figure out how much you are owed and add a Balance Adjustment to the Reimbursement Account to get the amount right as you work through this.

DryHeat

To expand on what @SRC54 said…

Your "Reimbursement account" is an asset account representing what other people owe you. The amount owed to you should be positive, not negative (negative would mean you owed them). So:

any transaction that represents something you spent on behalf of the other person should show up as a positive amount (increasing the amount you are owed)
any transaction that represents a repayment from the other person should show up as a negative amount (decreasing the amount you are owed)

So, in the Reimbursement account, money spent on other folks should show up in black type and money received should show up in green.

Usually this problem means that a transfer has the wrong sign on the value. But it can get complicated if you have transactions of different types (income vs expense). Maybe one of the coaches will feel like typing out an explanation of how that works.

BUT… you may also be impacted by the problem in the post below, which talks about Venmo reversing balances.

https://community.simplifimoney.com/discussion/16648/ongoing-6-11-26-venmo-inverse-balances

Sunshine26

View 3 – The $15 Venmo payment as it imported, categorized as Personal Income

View 4 – The same transaction after I changed the category to Transfer > Reimbursement account

View 5 – The warning that popped up (no matching transaction found). I clicked Continue.

View 6 – The Reimbursement account balance afterward: –$1,740.15

View 7 – The Reimbursement account side of the transfer

Thanks for the help!

Sunshine26

I think it's more likely she has paid me for things that are not in quicken. I will have to figure out what those are. I started the account in October. She has one large payment a month I just realized I never put in the asset account. You are right, If I catch up it will go in the right direction. At this exact point in time neither of us owe the other anything.

Actually, I just put a transaction in. Category Health Insurnance, Account < Reimbursement account and it went more negative. I think DryHeat may have nailed it with the ongoing problem.

Thanks for the time and care! It really helped.

Sunshine26

DryHeat,

Thank you! I think - hope that ongoing issue is the problem. Is there a way to share this conversation with Quicken so they have more to work with?

DryHeat

The coaches peruse the discussions here and chime in with help. When and if one of the coaches looks at this thread, they will be able to see everything posted here.

DryHeat

I think I understand the lending life cycle you are trying to capture in Quicken, but I may not. It goes something like this:

(1) Real World: You use your Costco credit card to buy something for "N."

Quicken: You represent that as a transfer transaction from the Costco account to your Reimbursable account. (This increases both the indebtedness in the Costco liability account and the assets in the Reimbursable account.)

(2) Real World: "N" puts money in your Venmo asset account.

Quicken: You represent that as a transfer transaction from your Reimbursable account to the Venmo account. (This decreases the assets in your Reimbursable account but increases the assets in your Venmo account.)

(3) Real World: Eventually you probably send the money from your Venmo account to your bank account.

Quicken: You represent that as a transfer transaction from Venmo to the bank account. (This decreases the assets in your Venmo account but increases the assets in your bank account.)

Does that correctly represent what you are doing? Am I following the money trail correctly?

SRC54

Well, I hope you get it figured out. I would just go to the Reimbursement account and enter a plain transfer to zero it out if she owes nothing at this point.

Are your balances right for your other accounts? Is the Venmo balance correct?

In the Spending Plan, Bills section, do the transfers look right there? They should be listed under Excluded Transfers?

Sunshine26

@Coach Natalie I saw that you popped into this conversation in June. Thank you!

Since then (July) I uploaded screenshots of the problem that may be helpful to resolving the Venmo ongoing issue regarding Venmo reversed balances. I may have said that wrong but someone posted aboutlink to the notice in the conversation.

If you have a procedure for Simpli users to correct it until it is fixed please let us know. And if my problem is not because of the know issue it would be great to know that too.

Thanks for all you do to support the community!

Sunshine26

Almost. For this “ Quicken: You represent that as a transfer transaction from your Reimbursable account to the Venmo account. (This decreases the assets in your Reimbursable account but increases the assets in your Venmo account.)“

N’s payback money comes in via Venmo. So I transfer money from my Venmo account to my Asset Reimbursement account.

so I go into the transaction automatically imported from Venmo and change the categorry to “Transfer< Reimbursement account”

Coach Natalie

@Sunshine26, thanks for reaching out!

If you are seeing an inverse balance with Venmo, you'll want to follow our alert for updates:

https://community.simplifimoney.com/discussion/16648/ongoing-6-11-26-venmo-inverse-balances

This issue has already been escalated and is being worked on. As soon as we have any news to share, including a resolution, it will be posted to the Alert.

We appreciate your patience as we work to resolve this matter!

DryHeat

N’s payback money comes in via Venmo. So I transfer money from my Venmo account to my Asset Reimbursement account.
so I go into the transaction automatically imported from Venmo and change the category to “Transfer< Reimbursement account”

I want to make sure I understand what is going on here.

I'm assuming that both your Venmo account and your Reimbursement account are asset accounts
The imported transaction in your Venmo account is positive, right? (N put money in the account, increasing the balance)
Making that positive Venmo transaction a transfer with the Reimbursement account would create a matching negative transaction in the Reimbursement account.

My point here is that this should be a transfer of funds:

from your Reimbursement account, where it represents money you are owed by N
to your Venmo account, because you now have the money, N has repaid it and doesn't owe it anymore

This type of accounting is confusing, and I admit I am a bit confused by what is happening here. Are you really changing the transaction where money comes into your Venmo account into one where money goes out of your Venmo account and into your Reimbursement account?

Sunshine26

@EL1234 If you have the time to look, Is your set up the same as mine and are you transferring the same way? The screenshots show the progression.

Sunshine26

I think I follow that! Thank you.

I would think Quicken would recognize that when the transaction goes in and adjust accordingly. I am hoping that is what they are working on.

Natalie recently posted the same alert in this conversation about Venmo that you posted earlier. I guess that means Quicken thinks this conversation is related to that problem.

SRC54

@Sunshine26 I saw you had replied to me, but couldn't reply directly. Seems like new interface only allows that so many times. 😀

I would make my Venmo account manual and fix all the transfers. Then I would keep it manual until they get Venmo fixed.

Now I know this depends on how many transactions you have on it.

I had to do the same thing for a while with Apple Cash (it is still not fixed; pending transactions cause problems).

I'd rather have the data right than have connections that break it. But that is all dependent on user preference.

EL1234

You could also keep the account as linked and manually reverse the numbers of each transaction as they download/clear, before marking it as reviewed. Neither approach is super convenient but maybe you have a preference for one.