Manual Savings Account Incorrect Balance

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Robinthemike
Robinthemike Member ✭✭
edited July 18 in Report a Bug

Hello!

My manual savings account balance does not match the total for all transactions within the savings account. I do not have any pending transactions, therefore toggling between "Bank Balance" and "Balance with pending" does not resolve the issue. I noticed the issue immedialty after deleting a savings goal of $6500, which is the exact amount that my savings account balance increased by. I did not contribute any funds to this savings goal. I reached out via chat and recieved a response that this was a known issue and was being worked on, however, I've only found 2-3 similar posts within the community. I deleted the savings goal on June 9th, 2024 and this issue still exists.

Is anyone else having this issue?

Comments

  • Coach Jon
    Coach Jon Moderator admin
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    Hello @Robinthemike,

    Thanks for reaching out! I apologize for the misinformation, but after verifying on our side I can confirm that this is not currently a known issue. I would suggest signing out of the application completely and signing back in. Let us know if this works for you!

    Thanks,

    Coach Jon

  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
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    Hi @Coach Jon , I've tried this mulitple times using the mac app, iOS app and website with no success. I've also tried refreshing multiple times. It's been ~96 hours after the issue occurced.

  • Coach Jon
    Coach Jon Moderator admin
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    Hello @Robinthemike,

    Thanks for the reply! Can you supply a screenshot showing the balance not matching so we may better understand the situation?

    Thanks,

    Coach Jon

  • DannyB
    DannyB Superuser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hi @Robinthemike

    Fellow user here with no claim to any expertise or knowledge of the inner working of QS and just tossing out some troubleshooting questions that come to mind (with no particular sequencing as to order of possibility or cause/effect):

    Manual Savings Account:

    • As a manual account how did you first set it up?
    • Did you import transactions via CSV file?
    • Did you set it up with an existing opening balance and then have added transactions manually since setting it up?
    • How much transaction history do you currently have in this account?

    Savings Goal:

    • Was the SG set up to account for the funds in this savings account?
    • Were all funds in this account accounted for in one SG?
    • Did you do a withdraw from the SG to zero out the SG balance before deleting the SG associated with this savings account?
    • Is/are there a duplicate deposit transaction(s) in the savings account register?
    • Do/did you have "Show Savings Goal Breakdown" selected for your Accounts?

    Possible Solution without doing any troubleshooting:

    Depending on the extensiveness of the transactions in the account and their relationship to other accounts (i.e. transfers in and out of this account to other accounts) I would consider deleting and recreating this account rather than spend a lot of time trying to troubleshoot what happened.

    Danny
    Simplifi user since 01/22
    Budget: a mathematical confirmation of your suspicions.” ~A.A. Latimer
  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
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    @Coach Jon see screenshot. Notice the balance in the top right corner does not match the total of all 33 selected transactions, which are all the transactions within this account. There are no pending transactions.

  • Coach Jon
    Coach Jon Moderator admin
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    Hello @Robinthemike,

    Since this is a manual account, I do agree with @DannyB that the quickest and easiest solution would be to delete and recreate the account. You would be able to import the transactions back into the newly created account and the balance should be correct at that time.

    Thanks,

    Coach Jon

  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
    edited June 13
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    @Coach Jon @DannyB

    Thanks for the recommendation. See below.

    Manual Savings Account:

    • As a manual account how did you first set it up? As a manual savings account.
    • Did you import transactions via CSV file? No.
    • Did you set it up with an existing opening balance and then have added transactions manually since setting it up? The first transaction in this account is +$127.
    • How much transaction history do you currently have in this account? 33

    Savings Goal:

    • Was the SG set up to account for the funds in this savings account? I don’t remember, it was setup in January. 
    • Were all funds in this account accounted for in one SG? Not sure what you mean. 
    • Did you do a withdraw from the SG to zero out the SG balance before deleting the SG associated with this savings account? No funds were added to the Savings Goal. No funds were available for withdrawal.
    • Is/are there a duplicate deposit transaction(s) in the savings account register? No.
    • Do/did you have "Show Savings Goal Breakdown" selected for your Accounts? I’ve toggled this option, but the balance does not change.


    I’m hesitant to delete the account because these transactions are automatically created when a new transfer occurs from the main bank account. If you’re not familiar with this process then it’s rather simple, you select the category as a Transfer with the financial institution name and a pop-up will appear notifying you that this will create a transaction in the other account. If you delete a transaction from one of the accounts, then both transactions in both accounts will be deleted. Therefore, if I delete the manual savings account then my transactions from my main bank account will be deleted, too.

    I believe this is a bug. Since this is a manual account, it should be easy to refresh the balance to match the transactions as there is no syncing that takes place.

  • Coach Jon
    Coach Jon Moderator admin
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    Hello @Robinthemike,

    Thanks for the reply. Recreating the manual account and importing your transactions would replace any transfers to other accounts as well in this case since the transfers themselves are transactions. Let us know if this makes sense!

    Thanks,

    Coach Jon

  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
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    @Coach Jon

    Can I import the exact CSV that I export from QS?

  • Coach Jon
    Coach Jon Moderator admin
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    Hello @Robinthemike,

    Here is our support article with instructions on how to import transactions from a CSV file. https://help.simplifimoney.com/en/articles/4413430-how-to-manually-import-transactions#instructions

    I hope this helps!

    -Coach Jon

  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
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    @Coach Jon thanks for the info, so no. Hopefully this bug is addressed at some point. I will not delete an account and re-add it as a workaround. In the meantime, I’ll add a transaction to correct the balance.

  • Coach Jon
    Coach Jon Moderator admin
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    Hello @Robinthemike,

    Thanks for the reply. We can definitely proceed with further troubleshooting. We were just offering the simplest and quickest way to resolve the issue. Before continuing, can you make sure that all months in your register are expanded? Quicken Simplifi will collapse older months within the register so if you are highlighting your transactions using the checkbox it will not grab those collapsed months transactions.

    Please let us know!

    -Coach Jon

  • DannyB
    DannyB Superuser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Robinthemike

    I mentioned the Savings Goal questions because of what you said in your initial post, "I noticed the issue immediately after deleting a savings goal of $6500, which is the exact amount that my savings account balance increased by."

    • Were all funds in this account accounted for in one SG? Not sure what you mean. 
      • When you set up a Savings Goal you have to designate which bank account the goal funds are held in. For example, I have a savings account that holds funds for two Savings Goals. All of the money in the real-world savings account is accounted for between the two SGs.
        • Real world HYS Balance = $5,171.33
          • Quicken Simplifi Savings Goal 1 balance = $2,085.51
          • Quicken Simplifi Savings Goal 2 balance + $3,056.83
          • The current $19.99 difference is due to a recent interest payment credited to the account and will be added to one or another of the monthly contribution amounts.

    Your savings account is manual in QS, but is it based on a real-world bank account (I'm supposing it is)? Do either of the numbers (Account Balance vs. the select all transactions number) match the actual bank balance?

    I checked on one of my savings accounts to see if I could "reproduce" what you are seeing. Turns out I have a discrepancy also. The account I checked is a connected account and the actual balance is what the bank reports and is accurate as of today. The account balance is $5,171.33 which is the correct balance at the bank. When I click the select all in the Transaction Activity window and all of my transaction entries are selected the total of all transactions comes to $4,988.33. There is a $183.00 difference between the banks reported balance and the sum of all the transactions in the Transaction Activities register. What is odd about this number is that it equals the amount of my monthly contributions to one of the SGs associated with this account. Your discrepancy is also related to a Savings Goal I believe?

    However, I can't imagine why what goes on with a savings goal would affect what is actually going on in an account registry balance.

    Danny
    Simplifi user since 01/22
    Budget: a mathematical confirmation of your suspicions.” ~A.A. Latimer
  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
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    @Coach Jon

    Yes, all months are expanded. I verified each line. 

    @DannyB

    I'm not certain, but I believe all funds for this SG would have been tied to this one manual savings account, but I can't confirm. However, I can confirm that my other savings account, which is a synced account, did not increase by $6,500. I didn't add/transfer any funds to this SG, I simply created the SG several months ago with a goal of $6,500, then deleted the goal on the 9th of June. After deleting the SG I noticed a $6,500 increase in my manual savings account. There is no transaction listed in my registry for the amount of $6,500, which leads me to believe it's a bug. 

    This manual savings account has a "real world" account but does not sync to the bank. The "real world" account balance matches my QS transaction registry total when all transactions are selected.

    I don't understand the inner workings of SG and the transaction registry, but I'm certain the deletion of the SG caused the discrepancy. 

  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
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    @Coach Jon

    @DannyB

    I created a test scenario to see if I could reproduce the same result. I created both a test account and SG. In the test account, I added one transaction for +$400. In the SG I created a goal that was tied to the test account, had no set date, and was not tied to the spending plan. 

    First test: I deleted the SG with no funds contributed. The result did not affect my test account balance. 

    Second test: I contributed $100 to the SG from the test account, then deleted the SG without withdrawing any funds. The result increased my test account balance by +$100. 

    I can’t confirm that I contributed funds to the SG because I didn’t verify before deletion, nor did I think this would cause an error, but based on my test scenario it would appear that I did contribute an amount. Again, I just can’t confirm.

  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
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    Hi @DannyB ,

    See answers to your questions below:

    Manual Savings Account:

    • As a manual account how did you first set it up? As a manual savings account.
    • Did you import transactions via CSV file? No.
    • Did you set it up with an existing opening balance and then have added transactions manually since setting it up? The first transaction was an opening balance of +$127. All transactions thereafter were manually added.
    • How much transaction history do you currently have in this account? 33 transactions.

    Savings Goal:

    • Was the SG set up to account for the funds in this savings account? I do not not remember how I setup the savings goal.
    • Were all funds in this account accounted for in one SG? No funds were added.
    • Did you do a withdraw from the SG to zero out the SG balance before deleting the SG associated with this savings account? No funds were added, therefore no funds were available for withdrawal.
    • Is/are there a duplicate deposit transaction(s) in the savings account register? No.
    • Do/did you have "Show Savings Goal Breakdown" selected for your Accounts? I've toggled this option, but nothing happens to the balance.

    I have extensive notes, tags, and categories associated with all 33 transactions lines. The categories are transfers tied to the bank, so when a transaction occurs in the bank, it automatically creates the transaction in the savings account. No, I do not want to delete and recreate the account as this may cause additional issues.

    I can easily add a transaction line to correct the balance, but this appears to be a bug and should be resolved.

    Thanks for the recommendation.

  • DannyB
    DannyB Superuser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yes, it appears to be a bug of dome sort perhaps related to the way QS handles SGs. When you delete a SG any funds that were “contributed” revert to the undesignated funds in the real-world account. It appears that the SG goal amount was treated like contributed funds and were added back into the manual account balance.

    *Disclaimer: I’m lousy at logic and systematic troubleshooting, thus I became a philosopher instead of an engineer 😏

    Danny
    Simplifi user since 01/22
    Budget: a mathematical confirmation of your suspicions.” ~A.A. Latimer
  • Coach Jon
    Coach Jon Moderator admin
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    Hello @Robinthemike,

    Thanks for the information. In order to get this issue escalated, can you please let us know what OS you are using, as well as the web browser and its version?

    Additionally, if you could supply logs this would help us determine what is happening as well. You can supply logs via the instructions below:

    1. Log into the Quicken Simplifi Web App.
    2.  Select Profile from the left-hand navigation bar.
    3.  With the Profile menu open, hold down the Option key for Mac or the Alt key for Windows, and then click Send Feedback.
    4.  Leave all boxes checked, add a brief description of the issue, and then click Send.

    Thanks,

    Coach Jon

  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
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    @Coach Jon

    I submitted feedback using the process outlined above. The iOS version i'm currently using is 5.6.0. I don't know where to find the version for macOS.

  • Coach Jon
    Coach Jon Moderator admin
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    Hello @Robinthemike,

    Thanks for following up! To get your macOS version you would just click your Apple icon in the top left corner of your screen, and then click 'About This Mac'.

    Thanks,

    Coach Jon

  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
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    @Coach Jon

    iOS 17.5.1

    macOS Big Sur 11.7.10

  • Coach Jon
    Coach Jon Moderator admin
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    Hello @Robinthemike,

    Thank you for the information! The last thing we need for escalation is the Quicken Simplifi version and build. This can be found by scrolling to the bottom of your Dashboard in the web application.

    Thanks,

    Coach Jon

  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
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    @Coach Jon

    version 4.14.0

  • Coach Jon
    Coach Jon Moderator admin
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    Hello @Robinthemike,

    We will also need the build. Please provide the full string of numbers next to the version, as provided in my prior screenshot.

    Thanks,

    Coach Jon

  • Robinthemike
    Robinthemike Member ✭✭
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    @Coach Jon

    I logged in this morning and the issue was resolved. My balance reflects the correct amount.

This discussion has been closed.