Chase balance is incorrect (edited)

RobWilk

Chase checking balance tonight was showing about $87 in simplifi, Chase website was showing over $1500 balance. Clearly there is some bad math going on. Also Chase in simplifi said i had $1111 pending adjustments, but $1500+ minus $1111 is not $87 so the math just isn't mathing, nevermind most if not all those pending transactions are already factored into the bank balance. I sent a bunch of screenshots to @Coach Natalie after 7pm ET (she signs off for the day about then). I hope someone can fix this software/service reasonably soon. The problem is not the service providers. There are probably 1 or 2 bugs causing these problems, they are probably easy to fix but hard to find.

Tomorrow it may or may not be corrected after the next sync, the fact that it eventually may or may not correct is not helpful.

This is NOT the weekend chase issue, this is the generic issue affecting all banks and has nothing to do with the banks.

RobWilk

BTW: I earlier showed this was happening with PenFed (which i will use less now), I guess "technically" I had to put that under a separate subject line for those posts to be acknowledged. I put them all under "Balance issues" as it is a generic balance issue all of the same sort not tied to one particular bank.

RobWilk

The next day, the balance is around $1000 too high.

Because of this which matches no pending transaction total:

Then only pending transactions i have:

I discussed the problem with those transactions in the topic on unlinking a recurring reminder.. Neither is what they are described as In fact the +$4.33 is not a real transaction, i'll have to delete it later, the +$4.33 is what should be the true CC Applecare Wallet transaction but on the Apple side - and is not scheduled for another day or two..

SRC54

For people who use their credit cards a lot, and some use it like a bank account with bill pay and multiple daily charges, this has to be a nightmare. I use Chase only for my 1-3 charges every two weeks to Amazon just to get the 5% back. So I can see clearly what Simplifi does in my case.

This morning my last Amazon charge for the month cleared and my balance is off this morning by that amount. By 930am, it will be fixed to $0.00. I am thinking of switching to using my Fidelity Visa next month if this isn't fixed. Or even Coign, which is a manual account. That is not an easy option for others and probably you.

Here's the screen shot for this morning's Chase update:

And from the Chase Bank site:

[Edited - Removed Personal Information]

DannyB

Sorry, all, but I have not seen any of these issues. I bank with Capital One - checking, savings, credit card, no balance issues; Citi - my main and well used cc, no balance issues; Chase, regularly used cc, no balance issues, Synchrony - savings, no balance issues. I have accounts at Bank of America, seldom used, but no balance issues when used, and at Wells Fargo, also seldom used but no balance issues when used. I am no longer connected to my brokerage accounts, but when I was, again, no balance issues.

I have "Balance with pending" selected, but even if I switch to "Bank balance" QS still gives me accurate data for all connected accounts.

Based on my experience, this is not an issue for all banks and all users.

BTW, I don't enter any transactions manually. I don't expect up-to-the-minute balance reporting over the weekends or "after hours." But even so my banks typically post pending transactions fairly quickly after I make a transaction even on weekends and after hours and these pending transactions download to QS in what seems to me to be fairly expeditiously.

Just wanted to let you all know the QS accounts module does work precisely as designed for at least one user.

Coach Natalie

@RobWilk, thanks for reporting this issue to the Community!

The first thing we will need to have you do is establish a completely fresh connection with Chase and gain a new access token, and then keep an eye on things moving forward. You may do so by following these steps:

1. Navigate to the bank's website, sign in, and remove Quicken's access from the bank's third-party linked apps.
2. Navigate back to Quicken Simplifi and make all of your accounts with Chase manual by following the steps here.
3. Once you see the account(s) listed in the Manual Accounts section under Settings > Accounts, go back through the Add Account flow to reconnect to the bank and reauthorize your accounts.
4. Carefully link the account(s) found to your existing Quicken Simplifi account(s) by following the steps here.

Let us know how it goes!

-Coach Natalie

EL1234

Do you need new info for Chase if I have an escalated case for it from this thread?

https://community.simplifimoney.com/discussion/comment/42925#Comment_42925

RobWilk

@Coach Natalie I did all that just now, and first want to let you know: That disconnected account transfers, and now I'll have to set it up again (if i'm going to want to be able to use it, which i might).

Next, I'll note, it seemed to "guess closer to" my balance, but is still off by around $100 or so. This time it was over the bank balance.

RobWilk

@DannyB Would love to know what's different about my accounts. I would say it's because i manually enter, but even when i don't manually enter it's wrong because it downloads pending transactions.

@Coach Natalie Per my comment above, I would like to proceed with the next steps towards escalating this issue, or to be added on to the existing chase escalation ticket (unless you think being on the citibank ticket is enough). @DannyB says his chase account is fine, so there's got to be something different with my account (either the way i'm using it, or something in the account configuration).

RobWilk

The .. ummm .. ability to reset authorization of account transfers, may be somewhat of a major bug if you stop and think about this: Every time the account is authorized, it seems to deposit around $0.15 into the account… So, in theory now, I (or anyone?) can continually unauthorize and reauthorize the same accounts and collect money (small amounts, of course) that never reach a limit. I imagine this is not intended, and until i hear back, I'm not sure if it would even be legal for me to "collect money" this way, so for now i will avoid reauthorizing.

SRC54

@DannyB

Chase has always been rock solid for me until a few weeks ago when I noticed it updated the balance but did not clear a charge. @RobWilk informed me that this was a weekend issue, and it cleared later that day.

Around that same time (timeline may be compressed; I have posts on here somewhere), I noticed my local bank was having the opposite issue of the balance updating and clearing charges but still counting the recently cleared charges. This week was the first time I saw Chase Card doing the same thing as my local bank, both yesterday and today. Both days it resolved itself at the next download as also does my local checking account. As bugs go, it's not the worst (especially for me since I don't have a ton of transactions). I won't use my Chase card again until December at the earliest. I am tempted to use one of my other two cards next week just to see what happens. Should I tempt fate? 😃

Also all of my pending transactions are downloaded first before I edit them as necessary. The exceptions are for accounts that don't download pending transactions, aka Capital One. The issue for me hasn't been pending transactions but when they become cleared transactions. And it doesn't matter if they are checks, debit cards (with or without PIN) or Bank's BillPay. All get counted again right after they clear.

It's interesting that you have a Chase CC and haven't seen this yet. Be on the lookout for it, if you will. It could be that this is only affecting some users but there are several of us with this. I hope it doesn't affect you.

PS. Something about this has triggered my memory, and I now remember that this has happened in the AmEx Account. I just didn't think much about it as my wife uses this card for trips only every 6 months or so. I am pretty sure the balance was off for a few hours last month but at the time I didn't give it a thought. The same thing often happens in manual accounts and they self-rectify also in a few hours (probably when the online accounts update).

EL1234

I haven't seen any issues with my Chase credit cards, only my Chase checking account. I'll keep checking just for curiousity's sake.

Coach Natalie

@RobWilk, thanks for giving those steps a try and posting back!

Please provide the following data to have your case reviewed for escalation:

1. The name of the account with the issue, as it appears in Quicken Simplifi.
2. The Date, Payee, and Amount of the transactions that seem to be impacting the balance ahead of actually downloading, or are being double-counted in the balance/counted in the 'pending' tooltip.
3. Confirm whether these transactions show as "pending" in Quicken Simplifi.
4. Confirm whether these transactions show as "pending" on the bank's website.
5. The current balance for the account in Quicken Simplifi (we need this when it’s incorrect).
6. The current balance for the account on the bank's website (when it’s incorrect in Quicken Simplifi).
7. The balance for the account in Quicken Simplifi after the transactions download/clear and everything becomes correct again. 
8. A timeline of when the balance is incorrect and when it becomes correct again in relation to the above transactions downloading and/or clearing in Quicken Simplifi.

Please also submit your logs via the 'Send Feedback' option:

1. Log into the Quicken Simplifi Web App.
2. Select Profile from the left-hand navigation bar.
3. With the Profile menu open, hold down the Option key for Mac or the Alt key for Windows, and then click Send Feedback. 
4. Leave all boxes checked, add a brief description of the issue, and then click Send.

Much appreciated!

-Coach Natalie

RobWilk

At the moment, after all this, it's "right" (it's not perfect, but at the moment i understand why it's wrong).

Will get back to you next time i see it / if i see it, if i decide to report it.

-Rob

Humanleg86

https://community.simplifimoney.com/discussion/comment/43902#Comment_43902

I reported this post for you, you should not post any of your credit card numbers…

SRC54

@Humanleg86 Yeah, it was just the last 4 digits but I meant to blur it out. Thanks.

RobWilk

@Coach Natalie I'm seeing it now, but don't have time to report details at the moment. I will try to do it later tonight if it's still wrong then. As a reference point, the bank balance is about $520 and the Simplifi balance is about $880…. I believe all transactions are reflected in bank balance.

RobWilk

I might be dealing with a different balance issue. Last night, Simlpifi showed a higher balance than the bank, but there were no 'credit' transactions. This morning i transfered $300 (covering some christmas spending, bought my 2 nieces iPads) to checking so now there is a credit tranaction, the only problem now is sync has been running more than 10 minutes without completing.

RobWilk

Okay, sync finished

It's now showing a negative balance in checking, and it's because of pending transactions that are actually cleared

1. The name of the account with the issue, as it appears in Quicken Simplifi.

TOTAL CHECKING

1. The Date, Payee, and Amount of the transactions that seem to be impacting the balance ahead of actually downloading, or are being double-counted in the balance/counted in the 'pending' tooltip.

The tooltip is $-531.27

These are all possible transactions it came from - today's $300 pending transaction plus ten transactions that were pending yesterday:

1. Confirm whether these transactions show as "pending" in Quicken Simplifi.

You should be able to see above, one transaction is showing as pending, it's a credit, but the pending amount is NEGATIVE.

1. Confirm whether these transactions show as "pending" on the bank's website.

The same $300 transfer transaction is pending at the bank website, no others.

1. The current balance for the account in Quicken Simplifi (we need this when it’s incorrect).

-$311.58 seen above in screenshot

1. The current balance for the account on the bank's website (when it’s incorrect in Quicken Simplifi).

1. The balance for the account in Quicken Simplifi after the transactions download/clear and everything becomes correct again.

I cannot answer this at this time 

1. A timeline of when the balance is incorrect and when it becomes correct again in relation to the above transactions downloading and/or clearing in Quicken Simplifi.

It was incorrect last night (the quicken balance was higher than bank), it's incorrect this morning (the balance is significantly lower than bank) - maybe if i go a long time without making transactions it might fix, but this is an active checking account.

Coach Natalie

@RobWilk, thanks!

Since we need to provide a timeline of when the balance issue clears up in relation to the recently cleared transactions that are still being counted as "pending", we'll need you to wait for that to happen and then let us know what the balance in Quicken Simplifi is at that time. Based on other recent escalations for this issue, we will also need:

1. A screenshot of the Accounts Summary page from the bank's website that lists all accounts and balances (feel free to redact any personal info) and has a wide enough scope to show the page URL (this must be taken from a web browser and not a mobile browser).
2. A screenshot of the running balance after the latest cleared transaction on the bank's website.

Please also submit fresh logs after the balance issue clears up so all events are captured:

1. Log into the Quicken Simplifi Web App.
2. Select Profile from the left-hand navigation bar.
3. With the Profile menu open, hold down the Option key for Mac or the Alt key for Windows, and then click Send Feedback. 
4. Leave all boxes checked, add a brief description of the issue, and then click Send.

Much appreciated!

-Coach Natalie

RobWilk

I will send screenshots privately - I will send feedback again after it clears - I will also "try" not to have new transactions - I charge almost nothing to this account, but I have a nasty habit of paying every credit card charge as soon as I make the charge, which I can try not to do today or tomorrow until this clears (no promises).

Coach Natalie

@RobWilk, thanks!

I also want to confirm what the balance should be in Quicken Simplifi if those recently cleared transactions weren't being double counted — would you expect it to match the bank's website of $819.69 with that $300 pending transfer from savings?

-Coach Natalie

RobWilk

Yes, because all transactions that are 'cleared' in quicken simplifi are 'cleared' at the bank, and the one transaction that is 'pending' in simplifi is 'pending' at the bank.

The bank and simplifi balance at this point should match. $819.69 is what Simplifi should be showing.

EDIT: The bank shows an 'available' balance on the website, so known pending transactions are deducted from that balance.

RobWilk

Okay, the next sync already happened.

And it's much better, but not great.

Same transactions in the same state, but balance changed to:

(Yes, i intentionally captured the time stamp there, it's US/eastern time/date)

The balance is off by exactly $300. It says there is a $300 (presumably meaning +$300) pending transaction correctly, but for some reeason it's subtracting the $300 from the bank's available balance (as if it weren't made). I wouldn't be surprised if this is another separate issue from the double counting issue that is cleared at the next sync, but if we could fix this too, great.

RobWilk

Did you want me to submit feedack now? I"ll do it anyway just in case

RobWilk

@Coach Natalie Should I resume using my account (ab-)"normally", or should I hold off if possible to see if/when the $300 corrects?

I just paid for an oil change on a (Chase) credit card, and I'm itching to pay off the balance, call it OCD.

Coach Natalie

@RobWilk, did that $300 credit now clear in Quicken Simplifi? If so, it is likely the same issue. Regardless, we do need to know to complete the timeline.

-Coach Natalie

RobWilk

the $300 won’t clear until tomorrow. That is what I meant when I said transactions were in the “same state”. I will wait til tomorrow when it clears to see if it corrects, if not until then second sync tomorrow. I realize coaches may leave early for the holiday tomorrow, Happy Turkey Day if I miss you leaving.

Coach Natalie

@RobWilk, thank you!

Yes, I'd just like to complete the timeline since that $300 credit transaction was involved in the original description. Otherwise, I think you are good to continue using your account as normal. The ticket number for your case is listed below.

-Coach Natalie

CTP-11571

Coach Natalie

@RobWilk, it sounds like the ticket I filed for you is the same as a larger issue we are seeing with Chase. A ticket for the larger issue has been filed from our end, but our engineering team is asking users to also reach out to Chase to help make them aware of the impact from their end. We will still be working on your issue internally, but it would be great to have you contact them as well if you have the time.

Thank you!

-Coach Natalie

RobWilk

Can you get someone who knows to paraphrase what to ask Chase for? What are they specifically doing wrong, and what needs to change? Is it simply a problem where outside of certain hours transactions do not update but balances do?