Ability to add Planned Spending Items to our Projected Cash Flow [edited] (4 Merged Votes)

DustinB86

Any headway on this feature???

Coach Natalie

Hello @DustinB86,

Thanks for reaching out!

If you navigate to the very first post in this thread, you'll see that the status of this request is “In Review” with a note stating that it was submitted to the Product Team in September. There have been no further updates since that time, however, please be sure to continue following along here for any future updates that become available.

I hope this helps!

-Coach Natalie

altChristopher

So, just thinking here for credit card transactions since I did not see a solution but you actually already have it you just need to make it easier.

So if you add a bill put it in the category of transfer and mark both sides of the transfer as ignore from reports and ignore from spending plan you won't have it muddy up anything and it properly adjusts the cash flow graphs.

I would suggest you add a "One Time" selection to the Bills section (Desperately needed anyway)
For the second piece on the dashboard for each account put a button "Pay Credit Card" and have us fill out what account it is transferring from on what date and for what amount (pre-populate with balance).

On the backend mark both sides as a "Transfer" and then hide from Spending Plan and Reports.

ajbopp

Here's a thought for implementation of when to display planned spending in the CF report, since planned spending has no date associated with it..

I'd suggest that the current day always start by including the left over amount in the planned spending items, effectively always assume that was is left to spend will be spent today. That way it gives me a worst case scenario of what the rest of the month looks like, and makes it easy to see if I'm going to be forced to make some adjustments in planned spending anywhere.

The only difficulty I think I can see with this is what does it display when you overspend in an area of planned spending? I'm inclined to think it will have minimal effect, because once planned spending is actually spent, then it's not planned anymore, and so the planned spending forecast in cash flow can never drop below zero.

RobWilk

Bad idea.. if i get paid mid month, before payday the forecasted remaining could be way low.

ajbopp

Hmmm…different expectations, I guess. If the forecasted remaining is way low because it doesn't line up with payday, that sounds like a good idea to me.

RobWilk

If it's forecasted for whole month, you don't expect it all to go day 14. I intentionally keep checking balance low.

RobWilk

How about dividing it and spreading daily among remaining

RobWilk

Andwill i be able to choose the account per planned item?

ajbopp

I personally would rather see how bad it could be rather than how good it might be. And yes, you'd have to be able to choose the account for planned spending cards.

RobWilk

How about this: I'm against planned spending being on the cash flow chart at all. I use planned spending for one reason, and that's to separate out from 'other spending' certain non-regular expenses such that they don't affect the 'other spending' averages for future months. I believe what you want could be solved with one-time-bills, where you specify the account and date, and amount.

ajbopp

A one time bill wouldn't work at all for me, unfortunately. I have a sizeable plumbing bill coming this month that less than a week ago I had no reason to think would exist at all. But I know that there's always going to be about $300-$400 a month of expenses that I cannot anticipate. To me that's what planned spending is. It would be foolish of me to not account for it in my spending plan even though I don't know where the money will go or when.

Not accounting for that in the cash flow report guarantees that within 6 months the projections in the report will be a much as $2500 incorrect. That's not a useful cash flow report. That's a report that represents the worst possible guess that could be made.

By the very nature of "planned" spending it should be assumed it will be spent, including in the cash flow report.

RobWilk

Actually, if you cannot anticipate the expenses, you didn't plan them.

ajbopp

I cannot anticipate what the money be used for, but I can be confident circumstances will be such that the money will be used. Sometimes for a plumber, sometimes for car repair, sometimes for a funeral memorial gift. So I plan for that. And until the cash flow report accommodates that plan, it is guaranteed to be wrong.

altChristopher

My opinion is:

1. Anything that goes through a credit card should be added to something just like a spending goal. It should reduce the amount in the account that is tied to that Credit Card (I mean what bank account you pay the card from). You should also put in your typical due date and that amount should go to project cash flow out on that date.

2. For these common unanticipated expenses (monthly) I think it is as simple as making a bill "Unplanned" assign to the account you want to see negative cashflow. (put it on the first of month as your guess is as good as mine, and make it recurring) - That gets it in the spending plan and projects cashflow change.

3. For long-term unplanned like saving $500 for 5 months I would think you just make a savings goal with the $500 monthly contribution and when the item comes due you just withdraw from the savings goal. If you go 10 months without anything happening you will have $5000. The cash flow projection need not be there you just want a balance that is available so when the large balance comes due you can add it as a bill and withdraw against the goal. You can rest assured the money is there because it will be reserved in the goal.

DannyB

Interesting conversation! For what it's worth, I'll throw in my thoughts on the cash flow porjection problem.

I haven't commented on this part of Simplifi for quite some time. This post and this post are examples. the first was an experiment on how to bring anticipated planned spending into my cash flow projection and I no logner follow this set up. The second is just a personal story about cash flow in general and doesn't really have much to say about the current conversation in this thread.

1. I don't pay any attention to the cash flow perdictions since 40% of my monthly budget falls into "Planned Spending" categories and 35% of my monthly budget falls into Savings Goals. Since Planned Spending and Savings Goal contributions are not included in the cash flow projections for the reason pointed out by @ajbopp above, the projections simply aren't helpful.
2. Another problem I have with the current cash flow projections is that they are for individual accounts with no provision for a combined account projection that would bring all income and spending into one projection graph.
3. Until there is a way to incorperate planned spending and saving goals contributions for non-monthly expenses and a combided cash flow graph is developed, the cash flow projections will not be accurate. As an example my cash flow projection for my checking account predicts that I will have a balance of over $41,000 in 6 months - that's just not gonna happen because over the next 6 months, based on my monthly Spending Plan, I will spend $39000 including all bills, subscrtiptions, saving goal contributions and planned spending (remember 35% of this amount will go into savings for both planned, anticipated and "unanticipated" expenses (i.e. @ajbopp 's plumbing expense - things just happen)
4. I now break down my budget (spending plan in Simplifi parlance) into 4 main groups:
   1. Monthly Fixed Spending - this is accounted for in Simplifi's Income after Bills & Savings in the recurring Bills & Supscriptions sections.
   2. Monthly Flexible Spending - this is accounted for in Simplifi's Planned Spending in my planned spending categories.
   3. Non-monthly Fixed Spending (annual/semi-annual expenses) - these expenses are accounted for under Inocme after bills & savings section through Savings Goals.
   4. Non-monthly Flexible spending (irregular but anticipated expenses i.e. home repairs, auto maintenance/repairs, liesure travel expenses, etc.) - these expenses are also accounted for in the Income after bills & savings sections through Savings Goals.
5. BUT - when I click through my monthly spending plans for the next 12 months I can see that my "cash flow" remains positive including a buffer each month for "Other spending."

Again, for what it's worth.

altChristopher

@DannyB - Question on Point 3

I see bills and subscriptions coming out of my projected cash flow. It comes out of whatever account is linked to it on the date the bill is due.

For example I have a small account I use for a couple subscriptions mostly annual. Here I have my Apple One subscription coming out and it shows as projected cash flow depletion. This is true for Bills & Subs as I have my Water Bill showing the same way in another account. So I think the non-monthly expenses would show properly in the "month" the cash is disbursed. I set up an annual bill it will put the cash in the month the annual bill is scheduled.

I think then the idea of "setting aside" money is more important since you don't have negative cash flow you just have reserved balance. Therefore if the "Rollover feature being discussed" helps then the following may not be important but right now I think Savings Goals are "Cash Reserves" and thus should not be negative cash flow but an earmark on the existing cash that you will need it in the future. The Annual bill would let you see when the cash is truly leaving the bank.

I wish we could link the Annual bill to a savings goal as a sort of "Virtual Account" so it would balance the spending plan that month.

Also, I think the term "Savings Goal" can throw people off of the power of their functionality. I did a different post that if we could have them as multiple types. Like "Savings Goals" and "Non-Recurring Planned" that would help delineate between aspirational and required but still set money aside in the account on the "Accounts" panel on the left hand side of simplify that you see on the "Dashboard" and "Transactions" screens.

https://community.simplifimoney.com/discussion/3574/we-want-your-feedback-on-the-spending-plan

On another note:

I roll 90% of my spending through a credit card so I would actually want to tie my planned spending to a credit card and have it project cash outflow on the day the payment comes every month. I would prefer I can link the bill to a credit card and setup a payment date that all the bills will be paid on but I use a recurring bill called CC Repayment for Soending Plan that is a Transfer from CC to Main Checking. (I have not found the way yet!)

I would like to be able to see a way to project the depletion of a spending goal but would prefer to have the "Rollover" functionality completed first to see how that is implemented to know how that impacts spending goals. Then figure out that since essentially contributing to a savings goal "sets aside" the funds in the account so you don't go sub-zero if you contribute on time.

ajbopp

A lot of people are clearly thinking very hard about this, and have very strong opinions. Let me boil my opinion down to one statement:

I just want the cash flow report to show me the same numbers as the spending plan.

If the spending plan knows that I'm going to spend $600 less than I make this month, then the cash flow report should be able to show me the same thing. It's even more important if the spending plan knows that I'm going to spend $600 more than I make this month - and next month, and the month after….

Right now, its an "Income, Bills and Subscription Report," not a cash flow report, because it doesn't relect the flow of a substantial amount of my cash.

RobWilk

Spending plan reflects all accounts, cash flow is individual accounts, so they should never be the same.

DannyB

First a disclaimer 😁 Most of what I know about personal finance is anecdotal. My experience includes reviewing financials as an agenda item in monthly board meetings for a few non-profits but others did all the actual financial planning and tracking. My experience is limited to trying to keep track of and manage somewhat competently my own personal family finances. I've read a few books on persoanl finance, listened to a few vlogs, stuff like that. As far as Simplifi goes I'm a user using a tool designed by other with no control over the tools design or any particular insights into the developer's design or budgeting philosophy. End disclaimer 🤪

@altChristopher Thanks for taking time to read my comment and to share your own ideas and application.

• I agree with you that we are able to track "cash flow" for individual accounts - but only per account and only for recurring bills and subscriptions attached to that account at least at this time.
• I agree with all you say about "setting aside" and "cash reserves" But, as Simplif is currently configured, when you add non-monthly recurring expenses to the Spending Plan you end up skewing the Spending Plan in the month that expense is paid. This is so because currently there is no way to reintroduce the money set aside in a cash reserve back into the Sending Plan as income for that month. Thus the need to mark these expenses "Ignore in spending plan" when paid out of money set aside in a savings goal.
• As far as recurring bills and subscriptions go the cash flow projections are just fine. My personal issues with the current projected cash flow are:
  • Not all outflow is included in the cash flow projections.
  • There is no current "universal" cash flow graph.
  • It's not clear what part of the cash available is set aside or designated and which is available to spend in current month.

As you point out, cash flow projections are per individual account and I suppse this has it's advantages and uses. But for me a cash flow graph that shows an amalgmation of data from all inflow and all outflow accounts would be much more useful. This is especially true since, like you, a high percentage of my spending is through my credit cards.

I don't include my cc payments in my spending plan. I tried that last year for a couple of months but it just didn't work out in a way that made sense for me.

altChristopher

https://community.simplifimoney.com/discussion/comment/14400#Comment_14400

@ajbopp - I am thinking more people follow your way of thinking than mine. I view the Spending plan as an income statement following accruals (where goals and credit card transactions are accounts payable). The cash flow statement is something that does not get impacted until the payment is made.

altChristopher

@DannyB - I am 100% onboard with a universal cash flow graph.

JMitch216

This is almost a deal-buster for the program. How could the spending plan not be included in projections? This needs to be fixed asap.

avihawver

Love that bills can be linked to a specific one of your accounts, but why can't we do the same with Planned Spending?? Would be way more helpful in being able to track/predict credit card balances in particular — currently I can see the subscriptions that will be charged to my card in the "projected cash flow", but if I want to know what my CC balance will be at the end of the month based on my planned spending, I have to do that math myself. Seems silly.

Coach Natalie

Hello @avihawver,

Thanks for posting your suggestion to the Community!

It sounds like you're looking for the ability to include Planned Spending items in the Projected Cash Flow. If so, we have an existing request for this where other users have also mentioned needing to tie the Planned Spending expense to an account for this to be possible.

https://community.simplifimoney.com/discussion/1651/ability-to-add-planned-spending-items-to-our-projected-cash-flow-edited-4-merged-votes

If you're looking for something different than what's already been requested, please let us know and explain how your idea differs. Otherwise, I am looking to merge this Idea post and the vote count with the existing request.

-Coach Natalie

Saltrix

+1 for this. Without including planned spending and/or savings goals the Projected Cash Flow is wholly inaccurate as a sizeable portion of my spending is not a bill and changes from month to month. (i.e. Groceries, Fuel, Dining, etc.)

I do understand some opinions that savings goal contributions should not be considered cash out. I guess this depends on how you are using them. But, in general, I think everyone agrees that you should at least be able to toggle if they are represented on the Projected Cash Flow.

CROforce

https://community.simplifimoney.com/discussion/comment/14400#Comment_14400

I totally Agree

Diver4242

Given that we currently have to choose between the spending plan (nice snapshot of where we are in a particular category spend/available "in the moment") and using bills/subscriptions (which show up on the timeline and give a more accurate cash flow timeline), this suggested feature is CRITICAL. It would solve the whole problem!! Please implement it as an on/off toggle with an option to "smooth" the spending throughout the month, distribute it evenly per week, or something like that.

MikeAlphaTangoC

Added my vote for this feature. Being able to make sure the timing of my planned spending matches up with payroll would be critical. The ability to make sure I don't overspend a monthly surplus or think I have cash available when I do not. I know most of my planned spending will either occur one-time, monthly, or weekly. Being able to average those buckets out on the cash flow forecast would be a great feature to help make sure I don't accidentally go negative because I mis-timed an expense and will help keep actual cash balance at the bank in-sync with the spending plan.

Evessia

Just here to upvote this! This feature is essential to how I plan my spending over the long term. My work around is adding a weekly "bill" for the amount that I expect to spend weekly (i.e. groceries or misc). I then just have to delete the reminder for the weekly "bill" when I approach the new week. It's the only way for me to get a somewhat accurate cash flow projection. I would prefer to not need this work around because it forces me to have a huge list in my upcoming spending that I have to sort through.