2 different transfers are linked to the same other side
In my online bank account (not Simplifi) I have a number of recurring transfers between my checking account and savings account.
I was making manual entries for transactions that were not in the bank transactions that Simplifi downloaded from my bank for previous periods. When I had added all the transfers, something got incorrectly linked.
The way I know this, is that when I view the transaction details for one of the transfers it has the text "Both sides of transfer detected Go to other side" under the amount field. The transaction on the checking side has the right date, but when I click "go to other side" the savings side has the wrong date.
I can then go to the checking transfer for the 2nd date, click go to other side, and it brings up the same transaction on the savings side.
Addditionally, when I go to the savings account and look for a transaction from the first date, I cannot find it.
I've been trying to fix this for over an hour now, but no matter what I do, it seems like Simplifi "steals" the other side from a different transaction.
can one of the Coaches please let me know how to fix this? Thanks in advanced.
Comments
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Not a coach, but this is an annoying (and I suspect known) problem… Sometimes I find in this situation it helps to make the transfer link from the opposite side. For example, if linking a transfer from checking to saving is linking to the wrong transaction, instead go to savings and link a transaction to checking. Maybe a coach will have a better answer, but you posted this outside of normal business hours [removed - accuracy].
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Rob Wilkens1 -
Hello @gskluzacek,
Thanks for reaching out! To help us understand your situation a bit better, could you please attach a screenshot showing the transfer from both sides? This will let us know where to go from there with troubleshooting steps.
Thanks,
Coach Jon
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Certainly…
this is the transaction that is correctly linked. On both sides
- date is 02/11/2022
- payee field starts with 31
- note field ends with 31
- flag is cyan
checking side
savings side
this is the transaction that is incorrectly linked
checking side
- date is 02/25/2022
- payee field starts with 70
- note field ends with 70
- flag is blue
savings side
- date is 02/11/2022
- payee field starts with 31
- note field ends with 31
- flag is cyan
and if I click "go to other side", it does not take me back to the side I came from, instead it takes me back to the transaction dated 02/11/2022 — which makes sense.
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Some additional details:
- there are 3 transfers from checking to savings, each with a different dollar amount, $600, $345 & $105
- each is scheduled every 14 days on the same day
- I had entered something like 3 months worth of manual transactions
- I entered the transactions from the checking side, setting the category to the savings side
- When I was originally entering them, I was using the same Payee name "Online Transfer To Sav ...3536" (don't know if that makes a difference)
- I can't recall the exact steps that I took,
- but I kind of remember thinking I entered had duplicate transactions.
- I think there was 2,
- so I tried deleting one of the duplicates from Savings side
- but the way I noticed it, was I did an export from the savings account activity, and when I opened the CSV file in Excel, the first month was missing 2 out of the 3 transfers.
- I then "futzed" around with it, for like 2 hours, trying to make names of then payee unique, adding flags of different colors, adding unique notes.
- from the savings side, I changed the category from checking to Uncategorized, then tried deleting the savings side and reentering the savings side making sure to use the same unique payee name as I had put on the checking side
- I seems like each time I got one set of sides paired up, a different transaction on the savings side would get changed to link to a different transaction on the checking side… hence my usage of "steal" in my original message.
- Unfortunately I did not document all the things I tried or the order in which I tried them.
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Hello @gskluzacek,
Thanks for the information and screenshots. Since these are manual transactions, I would suggest deleting the incorrect transfer and recreating the transactions. I am not sure what occurred to create the incorrect transfer, but deleting and recreating should resolve the issue in the Quicken Simplifi register.
Thanks,
Coach Jon
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@Coach Jon , thanks for your reply.
When manually entering Transfer transactions that are recurring does one have to use a different payee name for each Transfer so that Simplifi can correctly link to the other side of the transition that was made in the other account? It seems like there should be some set of unique transaction attributes (like date and amount) that Simplifi uses to match up or link the sides of a Transfer transaction in the separate accounts. And if I'm entering multiple Transfer transactions with the same amounts (but different dates), I'd like to know if there is anything special I need to do to prevent the above issue from happening again.
These set of three recurring transactions occurred over the course of multiple years. Some of which were automatically downloaded when I connected my bank accounts and some that I entered manually. The ones I've entered manually are for the 4 months Dec 24th 2021 thru April 25th 2022, as I am only interested in data from 2022 to the present.
After reading the article about managing transactions which contains information about deleting transactions, I see there is an option to delete in bulk which is good. But there wasn't any information about deleting Transfer Transactions. Do you have any specific suggestions on how to go about deleting both sides of the Transfer transactions at the same time? Or should this not be a concern?
I guess I'm a little concerned here is that if I start deleting the manual Transfer transactions, that Transfer transactions that were downloaded from the bank will get corrupted, because, as I previously stated, that when I tried fixing one side of these Transfer transaction, Simplify would sometimes reassign (or as I called it "steal") a different other side from another transaction. How can I be assured that this will not occur? I do not like the thought of having to delete all 174 Transfer transactions and then have to manually re-enter both side for all of them.
Lastly, when you say that you are not sure what occurred to cause the issue, is there level of support that can be engaged if issues persist after deleting and re-entering the transactions? Perhaps a team that has knowledge of and access to the code and who can use additional tools or can query the database to try and troubleshoot the issue?
Thanks for you help.
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Hello @gskluzacek,
Thanks for the reply! To answer your questions:
- the amount of the transaction is used when matching Transfers
- deleting one side of a Linked Transfer will automatically delete the other side so there should be no issue with deleting these
- you should be able to control the link via the Category. You can make a transaction "uncategorized" to unlink it from the other side
- when recreating the transactions, you should be able to create the other side while creating the manual transaction by using a Linked Transfer Category -- this should give you control over the "other side" since the two sides are being created at one time
If it makes you feel more comfortable, you can contact our Chat Support directly to engage in a screen-sharing session as well if you need assistance with these steps.
Thanks,
Coach Jon
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@Coach Jon , Hi me again… I've had another issue with 2 payment transactions for the same amount (with one of them being a duplicate) in my credit card account are linked to the same transaction in my checking account.
I put together a short 2 minute screen cast that shows the details of the issue:
- if the 2 payments in my credit card account, with notes 'macy #3' (the transaction that is correctly linked) and 'macy #1' (the duplicate transaction) are both linked to the same transaction on my checking account 'macy #2', if I delete the incorrectly linked transactions 'macy #1', won't Simplifi also delete the the transaction from my checking account 'macy #2'?
- Why does this keep happing… how is Simplifi linking to the same transaction on the checking side more than once? Isn't there some kind of logic in the application that checks to see if the transaction is already linked and not link it again?
- Can you please provide the list of steps to perform in Simplifi to remove the duplicate transaction from the credit card account while not deleting the transaction from the checking account?
Thanks in advance
— Greg
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So, the short answer to fix it:
You can set the category on "Macy #2" to 'Transfer', which should change the category on "Macy #1" and "Macy #3" to 'Uncategorized'. You can then delete "Macy #3" without deleting "Macy #2". Then, go back and set the category on "Macy #2" to 'Macy's Greg' which should then automagically set the category on "Macy #1" to 'Chase Checking'. Fingers crossed.
Longer answer:
I have had trouble with recurring transfers, just like your example. I've been fixing things as a I go, hoping the "learning" explanation tightens it all up. If your error is like the one that I have experienced then the "Macy #2" transaction was imported into Simplifi first. Simplifi recognized it as one side to a recurring transfer, however Simplifi wants to create pairs so it manually created transaction "Macy #3" and linked them. You can tell "Macy #3" was created by Simplifi because it has no original description. Then "Macy #1" was imported, which is the correct transaction to link to "Macy #2" and so Simplifi tries to link it also.
I've been on Simplifi for a few months and while I like the idea of recurring transfers and linking them together, I have found the implementation to be a little janky. The insinuation has been that Simplifi "learns" and will do better. In fairness I did things wrong at first in setting up the recurring transfers, so I might have confused things. I was giving Simplifi some time to see if things improve by learning, otherwise I was going to post the issues. Howeve, you took the time to make a concise video, so I thought I would chime in.
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@RockLee, Thanks for the fix and the explanation! It totally worked.
I've been a software engineer for 29+ years and before that I was a CPA… so naturally I assumed that
- Simplifi was using double-entry bookkeeping.
2. that scenarios like this where multiple transactions are linked to the same "other side" transaction just wouldn't be possible as Simplifi would validate that the "other side" transaction that it was trying to link to, wasn't already linked!!!
Guess I was wrong on both accounts 🤣
I love that Simplifi is cloud based & web based, the Simplifi developers have done a tremendous job with the User interface and implementing it as a web app. I also like that it is using some sort of AI in categorizing and matching downloaded transactions. And the fact that Simplifi can connect to so many banks, credit card companies and other financial institutions is an incredible accomplishment, especially with the frequency that these companies must change their web sites, API's etc. Kudos!!
I've been using Simplifi for a few months now as well and I'm fairly certain that I have used it incorrectly and have caused some of my own problems, but its not like there is a test environment where you can try things out and make sure you're doing them right before hand…
By observing what Simplify does, my first assumption is clearly incorrect, and that it's using some form of single-entry bookkeeping. And I can kind of see why this is necessary because of the flexibility that Simplify allows users when recording downloaded transactions.
For my second assumption, I had thought that when Simplifi encountered a new transactions (or other similar events) that it did a search of "unlinked" transactions, only, for potential matches. And that it would match only if the transaction wasn't already matched, if the amounts were equal, and perhaps if the transaction dates were within some close number of days (like 0 to 3?), and perhaps some logic on the payee name. In hindsight, I see that it must have to use matching constraints that are a little more broader to be effective in finding matches because of various outlier use cases… I dunno.
Feature request: @Coach Jon
I'm thinking I'm going to make a feature request regarding how Simplifi works when attempting to match up transactions.
Perhaps there could be an option in the settings that determines what Simplifi does when looking for matching transactions to link to and how it behaves if it attempts to link to a transaction that has already has 1 or more links, with alternatives like:
- never - never link to transactions that are already linked to a different transaction
- ask - ask before linking to a transaction that is already linked to another transaction
- aways - (i.e., don't ask) before linking to a transaction that is already linked to another transaction
And then for option number 2 above, also provide the user a choice of what to do with the transactions that is already linked:
- replace - unlink the previously linked transaction(s) and link the new one (i.e., replace the old linked transaction with the new one)
- keep both - leave the previously linked transaction(s) and also link the new one
- cancel - do nothing, do not modify the transaction and leave the previously linked transaction(s) as is. Do not link the new one
Also a feature for the user to be able to search for transactions that are linked to more than one "other side" transaction. And make the way to unlink a given linked transaction more obvious. Setting a transaction's category to 'transfer' is not exactly intuitive.
How would I go about officially submitting a feature request to the development team?
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Hello @gskluzacek,
I'm glad you were able to find a solution to your inquiry. For your feature request, we do already have a feature request that covers a portion of what you want, and can be found and voted for here:
As for the rest, Quicken Simplifi is already designed not to link a Linked Transfer 3 ways and what you experienced was most definitely a bug that should not have happened. We are glad, however, that you were able to get it fixed.
If you still want to submit a feature request, you can do so by following the instructions here:
Thanks,
Coach Jon
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@gskluzacek Retired software engineer here… I'm glad it worked, and that I got the Macy #s correct, I wrote it late last night. I think Simplifi gets allot of things right, so I'm looking forward to the sharp edges getting sanded down :). I think recurring transfers has some problems, but while fixing them is annoying, it's not a huge deal, and I'm hopeful in time they will be worked out.
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