Splits Redesign: Share your feedback here!
Comments
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Thanks - I can select tags just fine. When I tab out of the tag box with or without a tag selected, the tab key does not allow me to get out of the tag box unless I use the mouse.
Simplifi User Since Nov 2023
Minter 2014-2023
Questionable Excel before 2014 to present
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Please add notes and tags for splits as well. For example, I track a bunch of things under the "kids activities" categories, and then tag them with "summer camps", "sports", etc. When my wife pays for these, it hits as a lump sum when she pays her credit card every month. Its the best system we have; she isn't going to use simplifi. I peel off any big expenses she pays every month as a split so we can at least get eyes on it.
I guess I could do subcategories but tags seem appropriate because they're so flexible and categories can only have one sub-category.
Same for notes on splits. It would be helpful.
Thanks.
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@Coach Marcus thank you for your responses to our questions! Maybe it would be helpful if the split transaction could display as multiple lines, one for each split. That way it could show separate categories, tags, notes, recurring series if relevant, and possibly even dates for the different portion of the splits. (I'm okay with them sticking together so that you can see that they came together, but if filtering by a category or tag etc. I'd just want to see the rows that match the filter.)
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@Coach Marcus I don't believe what you're suggesting is what these people are after. Splitting one planned annual bill into monthly chunks for budgeting is fine, but it assumes that every transaction we make is perfectly controlled. Changing the date for the splits is for situations where reality gets in the way; e.g., my roommate was behind on utilities so they paid me for two months at once, I pay back a friend for the last few times we got food, etc. There are times in real life when two completely separate transactions are added together for convenience, and sometimes months apart. This is a common thing, especially for roommates, and there's no way to reflect it in Simplifi.
"Transactions that occur on two different dates would be 2 different transactions with 2 different split lines". Exactly. Make it so that splits actually create separate transactions, or add a new feature that does this. I currently do this manually. It's one of the features I miss the most from Mint.
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When editing a transaction in the "Transaction Detail" popup window, I click "SPLIT", then in the "Split Transaction" window, I add an amount to either of the new lines and it increases the "LEFT TO SPLIT" amount by that amount so that when I attempt to "SAVE SPLITS", I get the error "Left To Split must equal $0".
After much trial and error, I found that I HAVE to add a plus sign to the beginning of the amount to get this process to work correctly. I was splitting a deposit. Shouldn't it automatically know that the number is a positive?
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I have the same question.
Simplifi User Since Nov 2023
Minter 2014-2023
Questionable Excel before 2014 to present
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@slashinpdx, thanks for pointing this out!
When an Income Category is used, the amount should automatically be positive:
However, it appears that the new Splits modal is not honoring this. I went ahead and got this issue reported and will post back here with any news. I merged your post with this feedback post for the Splits Redesign so other users can be aware of this bug as well.
-Coach Natalie
SIMPL-19841
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I would like a date feature too. I paid a large auto service via check, now I want to treat that transaction as a "car payment" temporarily. Sometimes I post date and sometimes I date them in the future. But I rather I adjust my spending each month than see a big chuck removed from savings at one month…it's psychological but that's how I like to work in my budget software. There are some great features here. It was an important feature to me and splitting transaction was a deciding factor when I left Mint, but it was kind of late to change software once I discovered I could not date my splits. If this feature is not added it will be a deciding factor to leave.
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The Spending Plan still needs some work to do. It is not showing correctly when splitting a paycheck with gross pay and deductions.
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@ainsliejohn, can you provide some screenshots? Is what you're seeing related to the Splits Redesign specifically (for example, did it pop up when the feature was released, etc.), or is the issue separate? If the latter, please create a new post in the Community so troubleshooting can be done on the issue you're seeing.
Thanks!
-Coach Natalie
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Late to the discussion. I am loving Simplifi much more than Mint in so many ways. Splits is the biggest downside for me. The redesign does help.
Ultimately, I think having a split create separate transactions solves most of the feedback here (seeing the category easily, different dates or payees or notes, how they show up in reports, etc). Additionally, split transactions are currently a nightmare in an exported CSV list since they have different columns than the rest. They would appear like separate transactions but have a "split" icon on the far right similar to the "excluded from reports" icon is now. But I'm not sure how difficult that would be from a technical standpoint to implement.
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@kino412 - I opened a feature request to improve the split CSV import to be more consistent with the rest of the transactions. Check it out and vote for it if you would like to see the CSV import improved as described.
Simplifi User Since Nov 2023
Minter 2014-2023
Questionable Excel before 2014 to present
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@kino412 It's not an issue of technical difficulty, it's that the dev team doesn't consider splits as "separate" transactions. See the comment below:
Regardless, this is a popular feature request. I'll link it here so you can vote for it if you haven't already.
@Coach Marcus There are a lot of users who disagree with the dev team's concept of splits. A "split" is splitting one transaction into two, nothing less. Treating it any differently inhibits its functionality unnecessarily. I also like Simplifi much more than Mint, but the splits may be a dealbreaker.
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I agree with the concept of splits as outlined above "currently as we think about splits, we think of them as occurring on a single transaction that happens on a single date. Transactions that occur on different dates would be 2 different transactions with 2 different split lines. Conceptually, we will never add multiple dates to a split line because it doesn't fit our concept of what a split is."
Are splits also considered as several parts of one transaction occurring on the same date in Quicken Classic products, @Coach Marcus ?
Simplifi User Since Nov 2023
Minter 2014-2023
Questionable Excel before 2014 to present
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For people who want splits with different dates, can you comment on what @Coach Marcus said noted above and quoted below?
"tell me more about how this would work for splits or what you're envisioning. Theoretically, a split represents a single transaction like a purchase at Amazon that you simply want to break up into individual components because the purchased items have different categories. As far as we think of it, it's not designed to represent a recurring transaction or bill. I think what you're really asking for is the ability to define an annual bill like possibly property tax or some subscription service and to break it up into a monthly occurrence in the Spending Plan so you can break this up and "save" a little each month. We're well aware of this feature request from customers and are looking into it. In any case, if you are speaking about splits, can you tell me more about how you think this should work?"
Simplifi User Since Nov 2023
Minter 2014-2023
Questionable Excel before 2014 to present
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@UrsulaA @Coach Marcus Being able to break up a recurring bill into monthly occurrences sounds great, but that's not the only use case for changing the dates on splits. As I said before, "there are times in real life when two completely separate transactions are added together for convenience, and sometimes months apart". Examples:
- My roommate forgot to reimburse me for utilities, so he pays for 2 months at once.
- I pay back a friend for coffee for the past few weeks.
- I have two doctor's appointments a month apart, and I pay for both on the second visit. (Note: these are not recurring appointments, this is just how the practice bills patients)
- I have a recurring appointment that repeats every 3 weeks, 6 weeks, or 3 months depending on the circumstances, but I'm only charged every 3rd appointment.
Without being able to backdate transactions, these really screw up past trends. I didn't pay double utilities one month, I just got reimbursed late. There's no way to reflect this in Simplifi.
I think the confusion boils down to different budgeting mindsets, i.e., budgeting based on the date of service vs date of transaction. When the transaction takes place on a different date than the service, which do you want your ledger to reflect? Simplifi only knows the date of the transaction, so it is biased toward that approach. I prefer a ledger that reflects the date of service, for which the current splits do not offer the necessary flexibility.
Another way to put it is that a single transaction can represent multiple services, which may have occurred on different dates.
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IMO the ledger should reflect reality. Representing a transaction as occurring on a date it didn't actually occur on would lead to utter confusion.
I can't wrap my brain around wanting the transaction to reflect the date of the service. The ledger is there to track finances, not services. That's its entire purpose for existing.
Anthony Bopp
Simplifi User Since July 2022Money talks. But all my paycheck ever says is goodbye2 -
For the scenarios listed by @Oleksander, I would instead modify the spending plan to show custom income (for utilities paid late) and custom expenses for applicable categories (2, 3, and 4). I am glad Simplifi allows modification of spending plans into the feature up to 12 months ahead.
Will a rollover feature, which is in the works, help with the examples above instead of separate split transactions that do not reflect what the bank has in terms of dates?
I agree with @ajbopp , trying to think of alternate solutions other than treating splits as separate transactions.
Simplifi User Since Nov 2023
Minter 2014-2023
Questionable Excel before 2014 to present
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@ajbopp That's fair. I don't think there's one correct choice; they're different mindsets that work for different people. It also doesn't need to be all or nothing either side. I don't move every credit card transaction back a few days to match the service date, but I will do that if it changes which month's budget is affected.
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@Coach Natalie - Agree with feedback from other posters that it's important to allow the date to be adjusted for the split transactions.
Simple use case: A tenant paid me 3 months of rental income up front or I paid 3 months of rent upfront. In both cases, the "right" treatment in Simplifi would be to split it into 3 transactions for month 1, month 2, and month 3.
Right now, Simplifi allows me to split the transactions but all 3 transactions are forced to be on the same date (even after the Feb 22 redesign). This doesn't work.
(Mint and Monarch allow this date-adjusting ability in their respective implementations. It's intuitive and useful).
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@UrsulaA Thanks for the suggestions. I'm more concerned with being able to accurately view past trends. E.g., in example 3 it would reflect as if I'd visited the doctor twice in one month.
I could see the rollover feature being useful for some users in this scenario, but I was never a big fan of it on Mint. It was too broad in scope, whereas I often only want to backdate/separate out specific transactions.
Also, oftentimes these are things that aren't planned. I view changing split dates as a way to correct mistakes that don't accurately represent the reality. Though I do understand both your and @ajbopp's perspectives. For the most part I do want to see literal transaction dates, but in cases like the examples I gave, I absolutely want to list the dates the actual service took place.
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Been thinking a lot about this all afternoon, so thanks to folks like @SidKa , @Oleksander and @UrsulaA for making me do some critical thinking on the point.
Here's where my mindset is.
The budget exists as a plan to reflect what is intended to be spent, when it is intended to be spent, and whether that amout is within an income level.
The register exists to show deviations from the budget. Was more/less spent then was planned for? Was it spent earlier/later than planned for? Understanding how these answers impact trends and budget is key to the register's purpose.
In this light, it seems to me that changing a transaction's date is just as destructive as changing its amount. It distorts reality, and provides less useful information on how to modify your budget in the future to better plan for reality.
Paying for two months' of doctor appointments in one month doesn't mess up historical trends; it defines them. That is absolutely the kind of thing I want to see when I look backwards, in order to plan more accurately for what's to come.
Here's another use case. Suppose I have enough medical expenses to qualify for a tax deduction. I get a bill in January 2024 that includes procedures from December 2023. I can't deduct those December expenses because I didn't pay for them in 2023, I have to wait for my 2024 tax return to deduct them. But if I backdate a split in the transaction as having actually occurred in 2023, I have a record that doesn't match what I'm going to be telling the IRS. That seems to me like a problem. Not an irreconcilable problem, but I will forever be burdened with a register that doesn't reflect a reality that I'm presenting to the IRS.
I used to use Mint for a few months. But it didn't take long for me to ditch Mint in favor of...nothing . Because I quickly realized that a tool that was doing things badly, or flat-out incorrectly - and teaching me bad habits as well - was worse than using no tool at all.
Anthony Bopp
Simplifi User Since July 2022Money talks. But all my paycheck ever says is goodbye3 -
I agree with @ajbopp here. I rather have the Simplifi register reflect reality of cash flows/transactions. Health insurance takes a few weeks to process my bills, so I ended up paying in September and October for services rendered in late July and mid September, respectively. I kept the transaction dates the same as the posted dates in Simplifi.
However, Simplifi the app should have some flexibility to accomodate users like @SidKa and @Oleksander - hope to hear from the coaches about the splitting/dating transactions soon.
Simplifi User Since Nov 2023
Minter 2014-2023
Questionable Excel before 2014 to present
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I think that if and when Rollover on Spending Plan is implemented, that might cover all or most of the use cases for separate dates on splits (though it wouldn't help for reimbursements towards Bills since those are separate from Planned Spending).
Personally, having separate Notes for each split and also having the ability to link a portion of the transaction to a recurring bill would be much more important than separating dates. I also agree that changing the date of a transaction is a little bit like trying to change history and rubs me the wrong way.
I actually have a similar situation with a monthly expense of which 50% is reimbursed, but the reimbursement usually comes for 2-3 months worth at a time. The expense is listed as a recurring bill and I haven't yet decided how to handle the reimbursements aside from leaving it as "negative spend" which will show up as Other Spending since there's no Planned Spending set up for the category (as it's a recurring bill). I guess I could set it up as a recurring income item to counter the bill but I don't know in advance when I will receive it or how often.
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Iwonder if you could track it as a refund?
Anthony Bopp
Simplifi User Since July 2022Money talks. But all my paycheck ever says is goodbye0 -
I wonder, but the reimbursement is for 2-3 months at a time so it would have to be applied as refunds towards multiple transactions. Does it let you do that?
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@EL1234 "Personally, having separate Notes for each split and also having the ability to link a portion of the transaction to a recurring bill would be much more important than separating dates. I also agree that changing the date of a transaction is a little bit like trying to change history and rubs me the wrong way."
I agree with you on both fronts. Having a split memorized will allow me to track gross pay in Simplifi if I choose to do so. Splitting the paycheck every 2 weeks to track gross pay is not fun to do and I am not doing so.
Simplifi User Since Nov 2023
Minter 2014-2023
Questionable Excel before 2014 to present
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I also need to see split details on reports, transaction lists, spending plan transactions, and watchlists. Expanding the area below the transaction will be ideal.
Simplifi User Since Nov 2023
Minter 2014-2023
Questionable Excel before 2014 to present
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i’d like to be able to make a note for each individual split. Also as far as adjusting the dates, i have come across any reason why it makes sense to do this but it’s nice to have options
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@ajbopp Thanks for the detailed explanation, and for taking the time to consider our views. You make some excellent points that I have no rebuttal for. For the time being, I'll try following your approach and see whether I can adjust my mindset.
Regardless, I also agree with @UrsulaA that Simplifi should still offer that flexibility in some way. There could be dozens of other use cases for changing the dates that I haven't thought of, for all I know.
Putting aside the discussion on dates, here are my current thoughts on splits:
- Being able to expand the transaction to show the splits beneath it is a no-brainer, especially if it already exists in Quicken Classic!
- Everything should be separate between the splits: amount, categories, tags, notes, etc. It doesn't make sense to do bits and pieces. Even if I can't think of a use case for all of them, I prefer to have the option available.
- When filtering transactions, if any of the splits meet the criteria then the parent transaction should be shown. When expanded, any splits that do not meet the criteria can be greyed out.
- Splits should separately be able to be ignored from the spending plan and reports.
- Splits should be able to link to recurring bills/income.
This gives nearly all the functionality of having splits as separate transactions, but without the clutter and confusion. Thoughts?
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